[vegasgold]

Which are some of the safest?

[OffshorePrivacy]

I believe using a smaller private bank in Liechtenstein would be the safer choice in my opinion for a non EU account, obviously not Switzerland.

Offshore banking gets more and more difficult every year -- in another few years those without offshore banking will find it almost impossible to obtain new accounts if the G8 has their way.

[slogold]

Liechtenstein, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai

[vegasgold]

Who has Dubai accounts? Is this somethinf that needs to be set up in person?

[PanamaLegal]

Look at the TIEA (Tax Information Exchange Agreements) Tax Treaties, and MLAT (Mutual legal Assistance Treaties).
Panama has no tax treaties and is safe. Ecuador is a fairly non-cooperative nation off the radar.

[OffshorePrivacy]

Panama does have MLAT's and the US loves to use it to get information. Furthermore, almost everything is labeled as "fraud" in the US and that is enough to get Panama to "open the books".

Examples:

You run an Internet business and you misrepresent or over state something no matter how small, that's "FRAUD". You ship a product or send a letter and use the US carrier to deliver it...or receive something from the US, that's "MAIL FRAUD". Your running a digital currency or exchange currencies and someone sends you a wire from the US, that's "WIRE FRAUD" and "MONEY LAUNDERING" because if your business has committed fraud, then the funds you received are illegal.

For US people, or people fearing the US, Panama is just to close to the US politically and geographically unless they some day lean further "left" like Peru, Argentina and Venezuela.

Sorry, but Panama is oversold as a place to incorporate in most cases. If you don't paying for nominee services and have two Panamanian directors, your name is in the public record...how is that for secrecy. In fact, I am surprised employees of Panamanian banks haven't already sold their customer list to the US and the EU because of the level of corruption in Latin America.

[slogold]

Originally Posted by vegasgold

Who has Dubai accounts? Is this somethinf that needs to be set up in person?

as far as I know you need to set up accounts in Dubai in person

[PanamaLegal]

If Panama is so bad how come we do not hear about any violations of privacy (banking or corporate) from any of our clients which are numerous. The MLAT requires a case to be filed in us national court, criminal case. Then they have to show Panama that the crime is a crime in Panama. Then they have to show that they need the information to get the case prosecuted and that they have no other way to get the evidence. Panama can then cooperate or not. They can ask questions. Panama could also decide a violation of Panama law took place and conduct their own investigation and by the time they are through the statue of limitations may have run out. There is a reason why Panama has 500,000 corporations, 25,000 foundations, 150 large banks many with 25 branches and many of the large merchant marine vessels of the world registered there.
You do need to be a Panama lawyer to form a corporation or foundation in Panama which cuts a lot of people out and causes resentment. Do check for tax treaties. See what relationships the nation has with the USA and UK since the lions share of requests for information will come from these two nations. Any tax trety is a cause for alarm.

[OffshorePrivacy]

The REAL turth about the MLAT and one Panama firms do NOT want you to know....

"What is MLAT

The Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) and other agreements the United Stales has expanded usually first referred to cases involving criminal matters. These were the first uses of MLAT and usually applied to cases of embezzlement or financial fraud. Then MLAT’ s were expanded to corporate fraud cases and then to even civil divorce cases where fraud was believed as a result of spouses lying in depositions regarding overseas bank accounts. More and more of these actions recently have been expanded to federal and even bankruptcy filings where there has been a strong belief of fraud or the secretion of assets in foreign venues. This was in particular cases where suspicions of private trusts were used in offshore protection trusts.

How Does MLAT Work?

MLAT works in the following manner. First a local, state or federal prosecutor (usually an Assistant US Attorney) makes a simple two paragraph request to the Justice Department. The request usually requires: first, that there is a belief that there is fraud and second, and most important, where the monies rest.

Justice Department attorneys, especially those assigned to countries that are regarded as banking secrecy havens, are the sharpest attorneys around and are usually good friends with their foreign Justice Department counterparts i.e., they travel to their countries frequently, attend the same conferences and know how to locate and freeze assets. These friendships with their MLAT counterparts helps in understanding the law, individual cases, the criteria of a fraud case and the mechanisms and practical ways of seizing the monies."

We never recommend a Panama structure for North Americans unless there is zero chance of the above listed issues.

[PanamaLegal]

Panama and MLAT - We are a Panama Law Firm. We know many bankers. We know many other lawyers. We never heard of the things mentioned in the previous post ever happening in Panama. In fact it appears to be legally not feasible. Since we are a law firm, not a corporation purveyor we can represent our clients in the event of trouble. What you describe is the USA prosecuting on a federal level state cases. This is incorrect venue and the Federal Courts do not go around enforcing state statues, let alone petty matters like civil divorce perjury. Probably 50% of all court cases have perjury in them.

The MLAT requires a criminal case to be filed in the USA national courts. This means a federal criminal statue has to be broken. We have never heard of a state divorce action perjury matter (what you describe is perjury on a local court level) being prosecuted on a federal level. Hogwash. In fact in the USA perjury in non-criminal cases on a local level is very rarely ever dealt with on a criminal level, only in extenuating circumstances and then in the court system where it occurred, it is not kicked up to the federal courts. They would have no jurisdiction. There are state laws that have no federal statue like carrying a concealed weapon, driving fast, not having current license plates, etc. However we do operate in Guatemala and Ecuador for those requiring more security. These jurisdictions are on awful terms with those most likely to attack bank or corporate secrecy.

The components to a MLAT matter are that there is a criminal case on file in the national courts. This means a person was charged with a crime. This is way beyond an investigatory matter. They request information through diplomatic channels. These requests are far from common everyday requests. The requestor must show that they need the information to successfully prosecute the case. They must also show that they have no other way to get the information without asking Panama to violate corporate or bank secrecy. Then Panama can ask questions. Panama may decide to conduct its own investigation if they think Panama law was violated. This takes precedence of a foreign request. Panama may then take as much time as needed even if to exceed the statue of limitations on the the original case thus making the request moot since there is no longer an underlying criminal case.
To read the usa website on the MLAT treaties go here:
http://travel.state.gov/law/info/jud...icial_690.html

For info on usa tax treaties go here:
www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p901.pdf

To read our law firm discourse on such treaties with numerous links go here:
http://www.panamalaw.org/mutual_lega...ce_treaty.html

To read the UK government site of MLAT since you deal with corps from this country:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/

And for the UK enforcement of foreign judgments (Panama completely lacks this) go here:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/

And for UK tax treaties go here (Panama has no tax treaties) :
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/in_force.htm

And for Belize go here to see why we do not use belize as a viable offshore jurisdiction:
http://www.panamalaw.org/jurisdictio...id_belize.html

But this is no reason to trash Panama with no basis in fact or law. An attack through the legal system is a far cry from a loss. Ecuador has had to date three money laundering cases and zero convictions. Guatemala has a number of losses for foreign inspired banking related cases.
While it is easy to throw rocks at Panama we do not see these cases in the news, the press nor do we see the victims, the lawyers or the banks talking about these cases. Panama would not be in the business if it cooperated as accused. Panama is also not a criminal haven but they are not in the habit of signing off on any request for information lest they wreck their banking and corporation industry. Notice how quick the UBS and Lichtenstein/Germany cases hit the press. Where are these Panama cases?
No law firm would ever tell a client such things. once they read the MLAT they would see that it is unfounded. I cannot believe one would conside Belize or UK to be better than Panama since they have worse treaties in place.