EarnByLoaning - earnbyloaning.com

[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by mishugenah

I truly understand that, but I also know that we've seen this trash so many many times and arguing with them seems so very futile, whereas ignoring them really seems to end it quicker...doesn't much matter to me, I just hate to think of you guys wasting good and noble energy trying to take out the garbage. Whatever, I wish us all the best of luck and a happy weekend!

(Incidentally, I'm not sure about the new forum - hard to find things and I guess it will take some getting used to! - and I do wish it were easier to access from the home page.)

Michelle

We've had this discussion before in another thread, but I still think it's valuable to have again. I am with both of you on this and the reason I chose to "take out the garbage" is because while we experienced folks know the difference between "garbage" and credible posts, folks that don't visit this forum very often don't.

Less experienced visitors may not be able to tell the difference between someone who genuinely has a concern and someone like crashleg, smallface or croquemonsieur who will readily spew their junk. I learned how to tell the difference by observing more experienced members challenging these types of folks and think it is our responsibility to do the same for future members.

When I am in the park and I see trash, I pick it up and put in the garbage can. How is that any different than this situation? We all benefit from a clean 'park' and all are hurt by a dirty one. Failing to challenge junk posts is like seeing trash in the park and just leaving in site there IMHO.

If challenge those that post issues respectfully and thoughtfully, we weed out the folks that have no business here and help those that want help. I see only upside here. I think out 7 questions is a good way to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' sort of speak.
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[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by SurfersGold

Just wanted to pop in and say HI.
I see the members of EBL have had some very interesting characters come to visit. JP, in3worlds, EPD and many others have done a very professional job of addressing questions, answers and inuendos.

I was just informed of the post in the scam forum as well. I am not going to dignify the poster by going and directly answering their post. I would ask EBL members not to bother either. All I will say is it is a FLAT OUT LIE trying to perpetrate distrust. Funny though, this posting date coincides with my rejections of a few recent monitoring sites admin emails asking us to register with their sites and buy advertising. HMM, you all know the answer to those emails.

I suspected as much...

Originally Posted by SurfersGold

And just incase this person really does have an issue, they can post their username here, or, on our forum if they have registered and been approved with DD docs and as a paid member. I will personally look at their issue.

Having this message come from me is one thing - having it come from you is quite another. Thanks for this.

Note to the less experienced: SurfersGold is part of EBL admin and does not contribute much to this thread although he monitors it. Even though you won't see a lot posts by him, he's here.

Originally Posted by SurfersGold

Now onto better things.
We do have a new programmer. Completion date is not set in stone but approx. by Oct 1st. The programmer is a US based person, so no more BS with foreign entities. As you know, we have already gone through 3 programmers of foreign status and got shafted all 3 times. That is why we would not use another foreign programmer.

What really burns my buns is the last programmer was only 3 features away from completion. Guess we are not immune to getting ripped ourselves.

For now you guys are doing a terrific job and we at EBL appreciate all you are doing. As we have stated in the past, EBL's integrity is solely derived from the integrity of it's membership. You guys have shown an immeasurable amount of integrity.

See you on the EBL forum.

I guess you guys are poster children for the 'dark side of offshoring' eh? Being 3 semesters from a BS in computer science, I've had a lot of conversations with faculty and those in the industry about this very issue and unfortunately, what you are experiencing is quite common.

The bright side is that more of this type of work is starting to find it's way back to the States which is better for our economy as a whole. Just sorry you guys had to get burned by this.

Thanks again for stopping in.
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[aj9088]

Hello I just found out about this program. Dont mean to be a downer etc, but can someone please tell me how this program can be LEGAL here in the usa?? PLEASE, dont tell me its because it is a "loan" program and not an "Investment" per se etc...that DOES NOT WASH at all here in the usa and ALL loan programs of this nautre that promise a fixed or even a modified fixed return ( like between 10-15% a month) are considered illegal here unless they are first registered with the SEC...there are no two ways about it..if there is no SEC "approval" for these type of "loan" programs, (especially if they dont reveal HOW they make their returns!), then the program is considered illegal, it really is that simple.

i would LOVE to be wrong here...i would love for this to be legit and one of the few programs here on the net that actually IS Legal...so i hope someone who has knowledge, like jp or anyone, can show me that im wrong and will show me the light...thanx..

[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by aj9088

Hello I just found out about this program. Dont mean to be a downer etc, but can someone please tell me how this program can be LEGAL here in the usa?? PLEASE, dont tell me its because it is a "loan" program and not an "Investment" per se etc...that DOES NOT WASH at all here in the usa and ALL loan programs of this nautre that promise a fixed or even a modified fixed return ( like between 10-15% a month) are considered illegal here unless they are first registered with the SEC...there are no two ways about it..if there is no SEC "approval" for these type of "loan" programs, (especially if they dont reveal HOW they make their returns!), then the program is considered illegal, it really is that simple.

i would LOVE to be wrong here...i would love for this to be legit and one of the few programs here on the net that actually IS Legal...so i hope someone who has knowledge, like jp or anyone, can show me that im wrong and will show me the light...thanx..

Check my due diligence page on EBL and then contact my directly if you want to discuss further:

http://highyieldrebates.com/program1.htm

There is quite a lot of information related to this topic. I spent quite a bit of time pulling together the information on this site. I still have quite a bit of content to add to this, but it is the most complete source of information in one location that I can find.

4loan has a DD site also. I thought it could be much improved upon so I built my own. 4loan's site is at: http://freewebs.com/4loan if you want a point of comparison. Most the information I report is right on the page with references to the sources. 4loan's site are mostly links in its current form with a few links that I don't use because I didn't consider them relevant enough to bother with, but this is only my opinion.
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[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by aj9088

...but can someone please tell me how this program can be LEGAL here in the usa?? PLEASE, dont tell me its because it is a "loan" program and not an "Investment" per se etc...that DOES NOT WASH at all here in the usa and ALL loan programs of this nautre that promise a fixed or even a modified fixed return ( like between 10-15% a month) are considered illegal here unless they are first registered with the SEC...

With all due respect, this is simply not true. If this were true, any loan you made to anyone would be illegal if it were not registered: loans between friends, family, business associates... you name it.

I have done many loans between my company and private individuals and my accountant, lawyer and every sources I have read lead me to believe that I did not need to register with the SEC. Loans my be considered securities, but I know for a fact that not all securities need to be registered. I'll post an example of this shortly.

Not all loans need to be registered. If you believe this is true, then by all means, you should definitely pass on EBL.
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[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by jlpicard

...Loans my be considered securities, but I know for a fact that not all securities need to be registered. I'll post an example of this shortly.
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Here is an example from my personal experience...

Let's say you start a small company and you need to raise capital to get it going. The stock in this company is definitely a security. Does this stock need to be registered with the SEC before it can be sold to raise capital for the business?

The answer is (like many things in life...) - It depends...

If you are selling your shares to say only 10 people and the amounts of the total stake each shareholder possesses is lower than a certain amount, you do not need to register these shares with the SEC.

If you wanted to take this company public (and sell the shares on a major exchange), you definitely would need to register. I do not recall the exact number of shareholder or the stake limit amounts, but I can look them up.

The small business scenario is an example of a security that does NOT need to be registered. A loan is a very different type of security. Unsecured loans (like EBL) have less restrictions than secured loans do in general.

To give you an idea of how NOT cut and dry this area is, I'll offer another example. Let's look at a private mortgage loan...

Let's say I sell my house and decide to carry the paper (finance the purchase myself with the buyer). This type of transaction is another example of a loan that does NOT need to be registered with the SEC. (In fact, my wife bought a condo 10 years ago from such a seller and it was all completely legal - title company, lawyers, the whole nine yards...)

Now consider a mortgage provided by a commercial lender like Countrywide. These guys may bundle a number of loans together and sell them on the open market. This bundle of loans sold in this way is a security that does need to be registered.

The main take aways about registration is that it depends upon how the security is marketed and sold. If you want to sell your shares or raise money in the publicly traded capital markets, you definitely need to register with the SEC. If you are raising capital through loans or stock privately, you generally are not required to register if you stay within certain guidelines.

This is just my experience. I am not a lawyer, accountant or securities expert. However, I have studied this stuff quite a bit over the last 3-4 years.
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[aj9088]

im afraid that is not true jp...im not talking about loans between friends etc etc...and i think know that...im talking about exactly what ebl has set up here...they are a registered company that is set up specifically with the sole intention of taking lenders money and then keeping it for a specified period of time, and then promising to pay back a specified amount to the lender after this time period...this has been tried MANY times before here in hyip land, and each and every time the SEC has said that these programs are illegal UNLESS they are first registered with the SEC...im not saying i agree with the SEC, im just saying that is how THEY view it...if u look at those regulations that they sent to u, u will see it...

there is a famous case named the "howry case" where it is pretty clear how far reaching the SEC goes in claiming anything like this is a security and hence needs to be registered...

as far as this is the first time u have seen an online company like this use "paper contracts" which in your mind validates this company even further to u, well, im afraid u are not familiar with wellspring capital group (or mpactplayers, or even pshi).

that was a company that had "legal written contracts" that all the lenders signed and gave back to the president who also signed each contract specifying how much we were all to get in a specific time period...just like with ebl...the company was right out there in the public, anyone could contact the president by phone or email or IM, the support staff was strong and helpful etc...just like with ebl..people thought because of the openess and the written contacts which guaranteed them their money and profit, all would be just dandy.....

well, i think u know where im going with this...the president is now currently serviing a 10 yr term in a federal prison for running a fraudulent ponzi scheme and all of those papers we signed would be better used as toliet paper...

that is NOT to say ebl is a ponzi or these people are not honest..i dont know them and have no idea...and i have, over the years, read your posts and always admired your keen insight, seemingly strong integrity, and just your plain smarts and common sense....and the fact that paypal seems to have "verified" them by accepting some large transactions surely sounds like it is a good sign as to their legitimacy...and the stuff about pensco and the IRA is all good stuff that lends credibility to EBL....so im still not sure about it all but so far my only red flag is the SEC thing and the fact that im pretty sure if and when the SEC really takes a look at EBL, they will say these are securities, will force them to register or else shut them down and maybe even prosecute them...

again, i HOPE i am 100% wrong as id love to invest here too....so maybe more DD will be done concerning this issue and the answer will be clearer to us all...thanx..

[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by aj9088

im afraid that is not true jp...im not talking about loans between friends etc etc...and i think know that...im talking about exactly what ebl has set up here...they are a registered company that is set up specifically with the sole intention of taking lenders money and then keeping it for a specified period of time, and then promising to pay back a specified amount to the lender after this time period...this has been tried MANY times before here in hyip land, and each and every time the SEC has said that these programs are illegal UNLESS they are first registered with the SEC...im not saying i agree with the SEC, im just saying that is how THEY view it...if u look at those regulations that they sent to u, u will see it...

What specifically are you saying "in not true"... There was a lot of information in my last few posts...

BTW, the business of Quest Holdings is NOT to make loans and pay back lenders. Their business is making money through their operations. They use private lenders to raise capital for these operations primarily because banks require collateral for their loans. This is a subtle distinction, but a VERY important one.

Originally Posted by aj9088

there is a famous case named the "howry case" where it is pretty clear how far reaching the SEC goes in claiming anything like this is a security and hence needs to be registered...

as far as this is the first time u have seen an online company like this use "paper contracts" which in your mind validates this company even further to u, well, im afraid u are not familiar with wellspring capital group (or mpactplayers, or even pshi).

that was a company that had "legal written contracts" that all the lenders signed and gave back to the president who also signed each contract specifying how much we were all to get in a specific time period...just like with ebl...the company was right out there in the public, anyone could contact the president by phone or email or IM, the support staff was strong and helpful etc...just like with ebl..people thought because of the openess and the written contacts which guaranteed them their money and profit, all would be just dandy.....

well, i think u know where im going with this...the president is now currently serviing a 10 yr term in a federal prison for running a fraudulent ponzi scheme and all of those papers we signed would be better used as toliet paper...

If you could provide some references to this case, I'd like to look at it. I have compared EBL to Global Online Depository (GOD... chuckle at the acronym...) and would be happy to do the same with this program.

Originally Posted by aj9088

that is NOT to say ebl is a ponzi or these people are not honest..i dont know them and have no idea...and i have, over the years, read your posts and always admired your keen insight, seemingly strong integrity, and just your plain smarts and common sense....and the fact that paypal seems to have "verified" them by accepting some large transactions surely sounds like it is a good sign as to their legitimacy...and the stuff about pensco and the IRA is all good stuff that lends credibility to EBL....so im still not sure about it all but so far my only red flag is the SEC thing and the fact that im pretty sure if and when the SEC really takes a look at EBL, they will say these are securities, will force them to register or else shut them down and maybe even prosecute them...

again, i HOPE i am 100% wrong as id love to invest here too....so maybe more DD will be done concerning this issue and the answer will be clearer to us all...thanx..

You bring up some interesting points here... If the EBL loan transaction were not legal from an SEC standpoint, do you think Pensco would have approved the transaction for their SD-IRA clients?

My current SD-IRA custodian is RBC Dain Rauscher and my account manager (an incredibly sharp guy I might add) didn't have any issues with EBL when I discussed the specifics with him. Neither did my accountant... Neither did my lawyer...

I do respect your opinion on this, and I hope you can understand why I might want to put more faith in my own team of people.
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[crashleg]

Originally Posted by aj9088

im afraid that is not true jp...im not talking about loans between friends etc etc...and i think know that...im talking about exactly what ebl has set up here...they are a registered company that is set up specifically with the sole intention of taking lenders money and then keeping it for a specified period of time, and then promising to pay back a specified amount to the lender after this time period...this has been tried MANY times before here in hyip land, and each and every time the SEC has said that these programs are illegal UNLESS they are first registered with the SEC...im not saying i agree with the SEC, im just saying that is how THEY view it...if u look at those regulations that they sent to u, u will see it...

there is a famous case named the "howry case" where it is pretty clear how far reaching the SEC goes in claiming anything like this is a security and hence needs to be registered...

as far as this is the first time u have seen an online company like this use "paper contracts" which in your mind validates this company even further to u, well, im afraid u are not familiar with wellspring capital group (or mpactplayers, or even pshi).

that was a company that had "legal written contracts" that all the lenders signed and gave back to the president who also signed each contract specifying how much we were all to get in a specific time period...just like with ebl...the company was right out there in the public, anyone could contact the president by phone or email or IM, the support staff was strong and helpful etc...just like with ebl..people thought because of the openess and the written contacts which guaranteed them their money and profit, all would be just dandy.....

well, i think u know where im going with this...the president is now currently serviing a 10 yr term in a federal prison for running a fraudulent ponzi scheme and all of those papers we signed would be better used as toliet paper...

that is NOT to say ebl is a ponzi or these people are not honest..i dont know them and have no idea...and i have, over the years, read your posts and always admired your keen insight, seemingly strong integrity, and just your plain smarts and common sense....and the fact that paypal seems to have "verified" them by accepting some large transactions surely sounds like it is a good sign as to their legitimacy...and the stuff about pensco and the IRA is all good stuff that lends credibility to EBL....so im still not sure about it all but so far my only red flag is the SEC thing and the fact that im pretty sure if and when the SEC really takes a look at EBL, they will say these are securities, will force them to register or else shut them down and maybe even prosecute them...

again, i HOPE i am 100% wrong as id love to invest here too....so maybe more DD will be done concerning this issue and the answer will be clearer to us all...thanx..

Nice to know that those scammers are even operating illegally !

I will contact the SEC monday regarding earnbyloaning.

To all the other people (smallface,croquemonsieur,...) that got scammed ;please contact me and we can join forces to put pressure on them to get our money back and if this does not work out, we can sue them

[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by crashleg

Nice to know that those scammers are even operating illegally !

I will contact the SEC monday regarding earnbyloaning.

To all the other people (smallface,croquemonsieur,...) that got scammed ;please contact me and we can join forces to put pressure on them to get our money back and if this does not work out, we can sue them

FYI, you may not know this as you are a relatively new member of TG, but since you don't have enough post to PM, you'll need to provide an e-mail address if they are to communicate with you. See item #9 in this post for details:

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/announcement.php?f=26

This info should also help:

http://www.sec.gov/contact/addresses.htm
The LA & SF offices should apply since Quest is incorporated in Nevada and does business in Washington state.

Under http://www.sec.gov/contact/phones.htm

This one is probably most relevant:

Branch of Registrations and Examinations:
(202) 551-7250

Do stay in touch!
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