GDT is now wound up; Liquidator is assigned.

[DXPowerTeam]

Hi all,

cu63 - Right, your point is good when it comes to promoters of a scam. Generally, they are off the hook if their actions were indeed genuine. In essence, it comes down to whether the actions one takes fall in line with one's understanding of the program (as real or fake).

I had legal counsel since the beginning, and I've spoken at length under two investigations a few years ago - once with the State of Michigan (complaint inquiry) and once with the State of Oregon (more involved probe of the GDT model, as I understood it). Legally, I sold 'my ongoing point of view over DXS.' That's what folks got when they purchased anything from me, according to the Terms. Any issues would have to be settled in Grand Rapids, MI courts (MI jurisdiction) and recovery could not be for more than the cost of the training because we could not bear responsibility for monies put into DXS by folks (and we had no control over that, of course, which is why recovery could only be limited to the cost of DXPT materials).

Ultimately, it was quite clear to authorities that I was acting in good faith: creating the DXGP System itself was a strong factor... it cost me $130,000 to setup and $9,000 monthly to run (we ran it for about a year: close to $110,000 more spent on the monthly fixed costs), where the only revenue to be achieved was from direct sales.

Even then, we put a chunk of each payment into the OX-FSP program... we only ever did sell about $41,000 of that program, so considering that we did put money into the OX-FSP from those sales as we advertised showed extremely good faith; we were trying to drive the system upward with the DXGP System, which was clear to authorities.

Also, investing in the DXBC. I lost $30,000 in that beyond the rest of my losses, and at the final evaluation of DX-whatever balances inside the DXSystem at large, I had still something like $24,000 in positive balance, which is lost.

DXPT had no control over how the DXSystem ran (we'd try to influence them from time to time, such as to stop P4 activity when it was clear that this was killing the system - and is what Merv cites today as one of the biggest failures), so we aren't 'complicit' in how the system ran. Merv ran it 'his' way. We got no special financial favors from GDT's activities.

Also, we flew out there and flat-out interviewed them. Not just me, but other guys with me, most with university degrees, a lot of money invested and more in hand pending the outcome of the interview, and those guys were simply DXPT Members with no particular ties to DXPT's future - they didn't have to care about DXPT's outcome at all.

DXPT went out of business a long time ago, and I had to declare bankruptcy. All of those things are the 'mitigating factors' that show that I acted in good faith... and most folks would agree quickly that I 'really did believe in GDT' for the majority of the time. Even Mazu on their not-recommended page, where they made their comments about me, closed with a P.S. stating that they even believed it. And my money (the vast majority of what I made from DXPT and DXGP, together) had always backed my trust in GDT.

Well... talk about DXHeadaches... it took some time for me to recover from. And considering the bankruptcy, I can't say I'll really recover for some years yet to come.

Ah, well... I've had a very short career in Internet Marketing of any kind; that business (DXPT) hit fast/hard when I put it together, and it's growth was really out of control. There are indeed a lot of things I would have done differently - partially to protect my family better, and partially to protect the investors/members better.

I can say that I was ignorant of way too many things back then... such as 'you can't just own your idea online yourself' (the whole warring with other DX-sites). And 'customers should just trust you because you say they should' (ever heard of the example of the stock-broker who says "people should just trust me because I'm way good at what I do; they should see what I've done as justification for trusting my every next move"). I had an ego the size of Manhattan and didn't even realize it. It took some studying of real marketers (not Mazu) before I began to understand the scope of things I'd done wrong for years.

Jryangold - hope that helps!

There are things I've done since DXPT for business clients online, and I've been re-training myself in a corporate environment for the future; I'm dabbling with the idea of stepping back into Internet Marketing at some point to see how well I run (or at least begin/launch) my next venture.

Art - where you talk about Pluggy having a contact with some potentially incriminating info... I know someone who has contact with a prior programmer of Merv, and also someone who worked with the satellite company who did backups of data for GDT. That person said he say some things that could be incriminating as well... perhaps one of these is the fellow Pluggy is speaking of?

Sure - they should be referenced to the Merv case or the VFSC in any case... their testimony could well be useful. Hopefully there's a lead to where some cash could be squirreled away for the liquidation process.

Frankly, the bills are incredible for Merv before even getting past the infrastructure stuff: that is, foundational support bills. And on the other hand, the DXBC, and on yet another hand, the DXS Members. The liquidator will probably be able to identify the foundational losses first... and even if he can find $1 Million somewhere, it won't cover that stuff already. Let alone the rest.

Ok... I guess that's plenty enough to call this a comprehensive summary. Another thing I'll do in the future is drop the rambling tendency.

[pluggy]

Originally Posted by DXPowerTeam

Art - where you talk about Pluggy having a contact with some potentially incriminating info... I know someone who has contact with a prior programmer of Merv, and also someone who worked with the satellite company who did backups of data for GDT. That person said he say some things that could be incriminating as well... perhaps one of these is the fellow Pluggy is speaking of?

Yes. One and the same from my info.

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=518

[GoldenNugget]

Originally Posted by DXPowerTeam

...I had legal counsel since the beginning, and I've spoken at length under two investigations a few years ago - ...

Good post, Dave ...many do appreciate your comments in this matter!

Even though you have put this 'business' in a sufficiently clear light, there are still folks running interference for this scam, right now. I see good old Ben is at it again, this time in the Daily Post Copperwaite interview...

GN

[DXPowerTeam]

Gotcha, GN...

What we're seeing unfold now with GDT being taken to court is the direct result of something started about one year ago:

At that time, I was getting close to having to declare bankruptcy (I wonder how many others had to as well?), and completely blown away that GDT could just bleed us dry that way. Too much time away from my family, too much work and money into it... and though my wife had been completely supportive the entire time, understanding enough to know that I was doing my best, going nuts, and flagging against something I couldn't understand, I'd look at her, and look at my boys, and realize that I was causing immense damage to our future with each day that passed. It was really hard to handle passively.

So I put out a blanket request at DXPT for some of the folks who wanted to put together a serious investigation group - who wanted to hit it hard? Out of folks who responded, two stuck as solid participants.

We dove into it for the next months. We finally got through to some of the folks we should REALLY be talking to, and got them to respond. We learned a ton, much of which we still can't talk about because we're under a (this time) reasonable confidential agreement to protect one party.

But the goal - and the reason for the confidential agreement - was to pool enough knowledge to foster an executable action against GDT, with the right info to back that action up. At this point, it was a matter of making the VSC take action against GDT because... we now knew what we were talking about.

The court case was submitted long ago, with a lot of assistance from folks who could make sure we (in the US) would be able to remotely land the case (in Vanuatu) correctly. It was in queue to be heard in court with a due-date from much earlier. One of our 3-person party led the case; that person had the most at stake directly inside the system.

But then, right before our case was to be heard, the Judge retired (!!) and we were on 'hold' for a new judge to hear the case. It took a few more months, but finally happened. This is it.

Merv still has about another week to try to find enough cash to quash that case. It won't matter, though, because the same person who led it will show several others how to land the same case, on their own behalves (by the way, landing a case does cost a few thousand $$, and again - there is probably little more that can be achieved from it than to simply make sure GDT goes down permanently. Recovery itself is highly unlikely, so the cost of the case is mainly about individuals being in an emotional mindset to pay, simply to make sure GDT goes down).

As for Ben, I saw that too... and formed a quick reply. It will probably be approved shortly and put up. That should do it.

All in all, it's really amazing, this whole thing. When I started DXPT, I felt like a 'good guy' who felt great about myself, great about how my family felt about me and what I was accomplishing for them, and great about the prospects for the future, for 1000's of folks who were excitedly studying what I taught. I got along well with most folks out there, didn't have any enemies, put forth all the effort I could to train as best I was able, and felt like I was really accomplishing something meaningful for everyone who wanted to get involved with us.

Then competition came along, and it got to my head... you know that, well. I remember actually believing that since I created the concept of 'training over DXS', that no one else could do that without my permission. I didn't even really understand the differences between copyrights, trademarks, and patents back then. It took a lawyer to get me to understand the limits of each of these in detail. Anyway, it would have been far more valuable to cooperate with other groups who were developing their GDT-related anything's than to fence with them at length. But back then, I just wanted to show that I was the most knowledgeable trainer. Extremely limited thinking is a pretty good sign of inexperience. My first internet marketing business with any real substance, and I was too full of my own view of what I did to think much from the viewer's point of view: I wanted to be the 'only' guy. But the end-viewer wouldn't want there to be an 'only guy', no matter what. And they're right, especially from a risk-reversal perspective... anyway. Lots to learn for an inexperienced kid with a bigger-than-he-could-handle first business.

Then GDT started doing ridiculously damaging things with the DXSystem... and that meant facing losing a lot of our futures and realizing that we were leading 1000's of people into financial hell as well. I remember some of the people very well, and their luck was awful. It hurts thinking about it, and I believe one guy who had some severe medical issues who begged me to help him out (I couldn't anymore) might have died. A hurricane hit his place, destroying it, at a time when he and his wife, also in frail health, lost their retirement money trying to back our DXGP as investors (they put about $21,000 into it during the early development; that money paid guys like Dave Bowden and his sister to help folks in audio chats learn how to use the DXGP). When they invested, we really thought the DXGP would help the DXSystem a lot. A lot of those memories are particularly painful. Whatever I do online moving forward, I never want to see something like this ever happen again.

As things went downhill, I became less and less of a 'good guy.' Everything got divided up; no one was learning the right stuff anymore, and GDT kept changing the rules. Making a living became extremely hard, and eventually impossible, especially once we felt that we should not support this system any longer, even though many were still willing to. Others stopped early (like Matt Glanfield), and we should have moved on as well, citing 'bad management by GDT' - risk aversion being important to most individuals (and now for us as well). We still imagined that GDT would pull through.

... For much of this past year, we worked to pull GDT down. And it's finally coming to light. I finally feel like a 'good guy' again, albeit it'll take some time to make up the damage and find a meaningful way forward; something productive and meaningful to teach or do.

Just amazing, how everything happened. I guess this is how folks learn, though. Most internet marketers probably have harrowing stories of their first pursuits, though GDT is a tough act to follow.

[campco]

Hi GoldNugget,

I'm not sure what you mean by:

there are still folks running interference for this scam, right now. I see good old Ben is at it again, this time in the Daily Post Copperwaite interview...

but it was meant as a friendly challenge towards the DailyPost of Vanuatu to publish whatever known about this winding up of GDT, because we didn't see anything but rumors yet, didn't we.

See for your self:

Ben on Wed, 24 September, 2008 17:21
After the interview and so many comments in this news paper, I rather expected a full report of this going to Court of GDT.
Or is it only rumors what I'm reading here???

Regards,

Ben

Regards,

Good old Ben (I like that if it is meant friendly as well, by the way, 55 is not that old, or....)

[GoldenNugget]

Originally Posted by campco

Hi GoldNugget,

I'm not sure what you mean by:

Oh, you know what I mean.

It's well known by any following this 'business' that the Australia-based GDT has been in the throes of financial 'difficulties' for some time. The fact that, before the websites disappeared many months ago, the DX system would not make users' previously deposited funds accessible unless the investor would deposit yet more funds was a certain sign of 'financial difficulties' as well as the court pursuit of $15,000 recently by one of GDT's suppliers.

This "winding-up" has been in progress for some time and, by Dave's observation, the process is coming to an end. I don't think the Vanuatu Daily Post has had more than a few articles about this biz over the years and I sure wouldn't be looking for much more now.

That you would infer that the current state of GDT and certainly, therefore by implication, the state of it's schemes, is little more than "a rumor" is, well, what I would call "running interference," or a covert attempt to distort the picture.

Of course, this is all merely my own opinion, based upon my view of the internal operations of the various DX schemes, observations of forum postings and news articles over the last couple years.

GN

[artificial HYIP]

Dave, I appreciate your taking some time to explain how the GDT experience went from your end. I commend you in taking action to get the scheme wound up.

In all seriousness, I could imagine a book deal for you in this. You would need to get some good solid, verified info about how things were working at GDT's end to round out the story - was DX a scam? A good idea that was mismanaged? A bad idea that had no hope? Anyway, there's plenty of mystery, intrigue and human drama in what you've been through to make a good story even for those who did not participate in DX.

As an aside, I've long wondered how much Merv had had to drink when he came up with "Ortomatic Activation." There's something very bright, but in a distorted and distorting way about this guy.

[pluggy]

Its still down as a clever Ponzi in my book. I'd love to know how much of the millions 'invested' wound up in the pockets of the profitable merchants and how much Merv dissipated. Vain hope I suppose, its unlikely ever to come to light.

I always thought 'Ortomatic Activation' was extracting the urine.

[mrGSH]

Google says it cannot translate l'ortomatique from Maltese to English... ;-) And those messages from DX support team, that needed to be interpreted by professionals, like if they were divine revelations... I do not think it was just a ponzi... Was too much fun ;-)))

[artificial HYIP]

Originally Posted by pluggy

Its still down as a clever Ponzi in my book.

I agree. But if I were writing the book about it, I might keep that an open question to build suspense toward the denouement. And, if DX in fact wasn't a Ponzi, I would certainly be interested in an authoritative, verifiable account of how it was really a legitimate business enterprise.