[moneyhunter22]

Just a follow-up on the article. I received my print copy of "Business Week" yesterday (dated Jan 9th) and the front cover boasts a tagline at the top "WHY CYBERCROOKS LOVE e-GOLD (p.68)" The main story on the mag is "Intel Inside Out".

In case anyone wondered about the validity of the source.

[dirty_bird]

There is no doubt that reporters get _spoon fed_. The good ones balance the article & get details wrong as they are paid to publish, not obsess about one area from a particular viewpoint.

Here's the real question. Post 9/11, what part of an _offshore payment system_ which seeks to skirt regulations did people not expect to get some special attention from the Feds? Do people really expect the authorities & banks to sit idley by as banks & other payment processors are saddled with more & more regulations while someone with a server just opts out of all regulations? I don't think so. It was bound to happen. No surprises here. It was just a matter of time.

[awty]

Originally Posted by dirty_bird

Do people really expect the authorities & banks to sit idley by as banks & other payment processors are saddled with more & more regulations while someone with a server just opts out of all regulations? I don't think so. It was bound to happen. No surprises here. It was just a matter of time.

That's along the lines that I've been considering, as well. Those that are 'hobbled' by regulations, would only make sense that they would like to play on a level field - And, they WOULD have the resources to do it...
Will be interesting to watch as it unfolds. I'd guess that it won't be too public, though.
Jeff

[dirty_bird]

Originally Posted by awty

That's along the lines that I've been considering, as well. Those that are 'hobbled' by regulations, would only make sense that they would like to play on a level field - And, they WOULD have the resources to do it...
Will be interesting to watch as it unfolds. I'd guess that it won't be too public, though.
Jeff

Here are the players.

1. Customers don't like regulations, until have issues, then the losers want regulations & the winners call the losers crybabies.

2. Banks (& other financial institutions) don't want regulations unless it furthers their business somehow. Then they hire lobbyists to try to get those regulations signed into law.

3. Governments want to tax. Some governments want to regulate the flow of money, many don't care as long as they get paid.

4. Law enforcement wants to be able to inspect when they feel that laws may be broken....such as Ponzi scams, money laundering & tax evasion.

Mix this up & you have several thousand years of history. Nothing changes. Someone finds a clever way around the regulations until a combination of government, LE, banks & customers decide it's better to have the loophole closed. Then the game starts again.

The eventual outcome of this one is a no brainer. e-currencies will wind up with the same regulations banks have to deal with.

Originally Posted by poldo

Some people here are missing the point
e-gold is not a bank compare it to a gold retailer not a bank

That's like arguing the Bible using only the Bible to set the terms & definitions. Perhaps that works for Christians (then they argue about the version of the Bible) but not in the real world.

I doubt the FBI will be impressed with that argument.

Money is flowing from point A to point B. That usually constitutes a currency transaction. Those are regulated. You can argue all you want about definitions but when Person A puts in money at Point A & expects it to come out the other end (for whatever purposes) it will get regulated at one point or another as a currency or payment processor. Intent matters.

Car dealers, real estate agents, etc, cannot just accept cash & look the other way now. They are bound by similar regulations (like then or not). They can & have been indicted for money laundering for looking the other way. Not often but it happens.

[jlpicard]

Originally Posted by Open2Exchange

...just thought that the article was of interest. It is poorly put together and has a very obvious bias, just as all other mainstream media coverage of e-gold and other digital currencies does.

You got that right! Anyone who couldn't see the bias oozing from this piece must have a rather low IQ... Reading between the lines, one can see that e-gold is not the problem.

Terrorist activity can be funded by any means, not just e-gold. This article even mentioned that VISA was being used on porn sites, but the writer of the piece bent over backwards to demonize e-gold.

Originally Posted by Foreign_Crime_Watchers

... If you invested in ponzies and filed taxes on those earnings, you laundered money (which is what they are looking for). If you did not file taxes on those illegal earnings, you are screwed too. There is no way to declare illegal earnings other than laundering them. It's like paying or not paying taxes on sales of cocaine.

With all due respect… BALONEY!! First, no one who invests in a ponzie knowing does so. Second, you are not “laundered money” if you have received gains from a HYIP. You’d report the gains just as you would earnings from gambling. Third, you are not “screwed” if you claim these earnings. If you don’t that’s another story as anyone with half a brain would know.

Originally Posted by powermoney

… report your e-gold out-exchanges as income to the IRS. Since e-gold is not reconzied by the financial world and IRS as currency (yet), until you out-exchange you haven't actually made any money.

The fact that they were raided and they are still in business show that they couldn't find anything illegal with the e-gold 'system'. If e-gold was illegal, Paypal would probably be illegal also.

Thoughtful post that hits the mark..

Originally Posted by ampster

Receiving profits from a HYIP is not "money laundering" as a previous poster mentioned. (Granted, not declaring it on your taxes is tax evasion, and that's illegal, but it's NOT money laundering.) Receiving profits from a Ponzi is illegal if you referred people into the Ponzi (i.e. "facilitated their loss.")...

Again, right on the mark..

Originally Posted by LeonardSix

... If Bin Laden had owed back taxes he'd have been caught a long time ago.

can’t disagree with that!...

Originally Posted by 0wn3d

The FBI could give half a crap about people's account's being drained inside e-Gold. They have bigger fish to fry...

Got that right… That’s why reporting a defunct HYIP to the FBI is complete and utter waist of time.

Originally Posted by goldminer45

... That being said I doubt the govt kicked e-gold's doors in with guns drawn. They probably walked in and asked to take a look around. Business is back to normal. It's a sad reality we have to live with in this world.

I’ll bet you’re right…

Originally Posted by poldo

Some people here are missing the point
e-gold is not a bank compare it to a gold retailer not a bank

I agree it’s not a bank, but it’s not really a gold retailer either – that’s what OmniPay does. It’s more like getting chips in Vegas. Instead of “chips” you get grams of gold…

What makes e-gold problematic for governments (especially the US) is the mobility of the currency. You can pay anyone, anywhere at anytime anonymously. That, my friends it the real 'problem' with e-gold. Think of nuclear enegry... it can be used to light a city or blow it up. No different here. The real 'problem' is how the currency is used, not the currency itself.

When the 'tranporters' that they show on Star Trac are a reality, 'beaming' cash to another person would have the same effect as e-gold. Would that make transporters evil?

Originally Posted by dirty_bird

Here are the players.

1. Customers don't like regulations, until have issues, then the losers want regulations & the winners call the losers crybabies.

2. Banks (& other financial institutions) don't want regulations unless it furthers their business somehow. Then they hire lobbyists to try to get those regulations signed into law.

3. Governments want to tax. Some governments want to regulate the flow of money, many don't care as long as they get paid.

4. Law enforcement wants to be able to inspect when they feel that laws may be broken....such as Ponzi scams, money laundering & tax evasion.

Mix this up & you have several thousand years of history. Nothing changes. Someone finds a clever way around the regulations until a combination of government, LE, banks & customers decide it's better to have the loophole closed. Then the game starts again.

The eventual outcome of this one is a no brainer. e-currencies will wind up with the same regulations banks have to deal with.

That's like arguing the Bible using only the Bible to set the terms & definitions. Perhaps that works for Christians (then they argue about the version of the Bible) but not in the real world.

I doubt the FBI will be impressed with that argument.

Money is flowing from point A to point B. That usually constitutes a currency transaction. Those are regulated. You can argue all you want about definitions but when Person A puts in money at Point A & expects it to come out the other end (for whatever purposes) it will get regulated at one point or another as a currency or payment processor. Intent matters.

Car dealers, real estate agents, etc, cannot just accept cash & look the other way now. They are bound by similar regulations (like then or not). They can & have been indicted for money laundering for looking the other way. Not often but it happens.

My favorite post in this very interesting thread! Truth be told, many powerful interests have a lot of reasons to want to squelch e-gold, but doing so will not solve the issue that they hope to avert.

[poldo]

Originally Posted by dirty_bird

Here are th

Money is flowing from point A to point B. That usually constitutes a currency transaction. Those are regulated. You can argue all you want about definitions but when Person A puts in money at Point A & expects it to come out the other end (for whatever purposes) it will get regulated at one point or another as a currency or payment processor. Intent matters.

there's a difference e-gold does not move money from point a to point b
that's the job of the exchanger e-gold is not an exchanger
they simply store gold for you, remember you have to buy the gold before you can store it in your egold account, so it's not physical but it's still gold
I am sure the federal government will try to regulate them but it won't be easy

[0wn3d]

That being said I doubt the govt kicked e-gold's doors in with guns drawn. They probably walked in and asked to take a look around. Business is back to normal. It's a sad reality we have to live with in this world.

No, they didn't show up with guns drawn...they showed up with a couple of agents, who were subsequently told that the subpoena/search warrant was bogus and they had no claim. Agents told them, "Okay, we'll be back in a couple of hours."

And back they were, with a team of 20+ agents who bent e-Gold over and fisted them for their "non-compliance". 36 hours of what amounted to a "virtual" cavity search of all systems involved. Meanwhile, everyone else was thinking it was another e-Gold DDOS.

[JackCheese]

Well that account is interesting. Where did that come from??

[ahays630]

Originally Posted by 0wn3d

No, they didn't show up with guns drawn...they showed up with a couple of agents, who were subsequently told that the subpoena/search warrant was bogus and they had no claim. Agents told them, "Okay, we'll be back in a couple of hours."

And back they were, with a team of 20+ agents who bent e-Gold over and fisted them for their "non-compliance". 36 hours of what amounted to a "virtual" cavity search of all systems involved. Meanwhile, everyone else was thinking it was another e-Gold DDOS.

Good times!!!

[poldo]

Some people here are missing the point
e-gold is not a bank compare it to a gold retailer not a bank